PCLinuxOS was the perfect distribution in 2007. It had all the bells and whistles to be an excellent Windows XP alternative. Here the the things I loved about PCLinuxOS
- Good looking UI ( OK I admit that I love KDE ).
- Almost mimicking XP look and Feel ( now many of Linux Purist might not like it, but this acts as an important point to help transition a new user from XP to PCLOS - keyword is less learning curve).
- Almost everything working out of Box.
- Very fast and responsive.
- Ultra stable.
- Works on almost every hardware.
- Amongst the first to update the repository with updated software, ( Check my blog about GIMP 2.4 release).
When a distribution is able to configure my hardware, is ultra stable, highly updated and provide me with almost all the required software then I think that is the distribution I am looking for. PCLOS had all these abilities and more. That's the reason it was called the distro-hopper stopper. People loved it and it rose to the pinnacle of Distrowatch Page hit rankings. Not only reached; it stayed there for a good 6 months. If we consider that the distribution PCLOS dethroned was mighty Ubuntu, that makes PCLOS achievement even more impressive. On one hand Ubuntu had the backing of Canonical - they were sending free CDs, had tieup with the likes of Dell, had dozens ( maybe more ) developers working; on other hand there was PCLOS which had a very small dev team and no corporate backing, no big computer assembler backing them.
Yet PCLOS rose to top on account of sheer merit. It had the novelty to generate interest and the quality to sustain it. Kudos to Textar and PCLOS 2007. It was almost perfect.
Alas! that was 2007, however, this is 2008 and almost end of 2008. A lot has changed since then. Specially for me life has taken an altogether new twist. I have changed my company, changed my job responsibilities and even changed my country of work. And how much has PCLOS changed since 2007 ? I know its repositories are updated but question is how much ? Are they having the latest versions ? Or are they having the version which most of its peers have ? Does it still support almost all latest hardware ?
I had all these questions in my mind and tried PCLOS 2007 on my Sony Vaio. For reference:: Mandriva 2008.1 detected all the hardware except for Motion Eye webcam and the Fn+F7 does not work. Apart from this everything works perfectly. With OpenSUSE 11 and Ubuntu 8.04, additionally I had to download the drivers to get my Atheros wi-fi working. Of the three only Ubuntu failed to resume from hibernation; Mandriva and OpenSUSE have no trouble waking from up upto three continuous sleep. Coming back to my attempt with PCLOS 2007, here are my findings:
- LiveCD download was fast.
- The initial boot shows too many options which can be confusing for a new user. I like the Mandriva Spring approach which provides a single option or even the slick options of OpenSUSE.
- Same old, but still good looking splash screen.
- A huge number of clicks before I can reach the desktop. I actually counted the number of different screen to 18. God, I had to click the mouse at least 12 times before I reached the desktop. Compare this with class leading Ubuntu where the number of clicks is ZERO and the frustration increases. Lets see some of the clicks and the stupid reasons behind it
- Configure Network: This gives the option to select Ethernet, DSL etc. Then starts a series of 6 clicks in the end when PCLOS says "Congrats the network is configured". However, the funny and frustrating part is that I still have to click OK for the LiveCD to proceed. My question is when the LiveCD discovered that I want to go for Auto-DHCP from my router, why does it still require user intervention ?
- Select keyboard ( Oh yes, what happened to hardware auto detection ?)
- Select Timezone. Comeon man this is just a LiveCD boot. We can do with these questions when I actually try to install it on my hard disk.
- KDM. Why show KDM in a LiveCD. In a LiveCD all a normal user wants to do is to reach desktop and check the distribution and possibly install. Also the options are Root and Guest. Luckily they have provided the passwords for both users, but would have been handy to have both the user name and password populated when a user is selected. Either way password is displayed on the same page so security is not an issue- it just reduces problems to user.
- On the desktop, I found the old customized KDE, which amazingly is still good to look at.
- Next was the time to install on hard disk and again I counted 17 different screens even when I selected to use my entire hard disk. I just hope this is not a deliberate attempt to frustrate users.
- On reboot, I found myself quickly on the KDM, there is no option to auto login during install. OpenSUSE does a fantastic job in this respect. Now some people might cry security. Lets remind ourselves PCLOS is intended to be used by home users where there is hardly any risk posed by Auto-login.
- OK if auto-login is a risk, then what is the option to login as root ? ? PCLOS gloriously provides the option to login as root.
- I quickly came to the desktop and smiled at the familiar and pleasing KDE presented. However, there is not novelty. Nothing new.
- Then I tried connecting to my wi-fi. Unfortunately like Ubuntu, PCLOS also failed where Mandriva worked perfectly. I know that PCLOS 2007 has an old kernel, old everything so an update might bring about some change. I connected to my wired ethernet connection and started the upgrade through Synaptic.
- Synaptic told me that some 600 odd packages needs to be updated and 700 odd MB needs to be downloaded. Wow! more than the 2007 iso. Still I was happy that I'll get a new and fresh system. Destiny had some other plans for my install. Towards the end of download, Synaptic gave me an error saying that some package could not be downloaded. I tried and then again tried and finally clicked skip. Same thing happened with three more packages and I clicked skip. After the download Synaptic started upgrading my system and all hell broke loose. All of a sudden my system rebooted and I was brought to a shell saying that "no inittab file found". I know what this means. This clearly means that some error occurred during upgrade and now my system is screwed.
I have taken a picture of that error as this was the first time the Ultra Stable PCLOS duped me.
- I agree that I clicked skip on a few packages, but Synaptic should be intelligent enough to not upgrade packages whose dependencies are not met.
This was end of my date with PCLOS. Then I checked that PCLOS repositories are not updated to the latest version of software. For instance KDE 4.1 is still not the default KDE desktop. Yeah, yeah some might say that KDE 4.1 is not suitable for normal use. Unfortunately for those, the distribution managers of major distributions like OpenSUSE, Mandriva and Kubuntu think otherwise. Guys if KDE 4.1 was really that bad, these high profile distributions would not include them as default desktop. Not just KDE 4.1, even the Linux kernel version in PCLOS repos is 2.6.22 where as the latest version is 2.6.26.
To summarize PCLOS lost on the exact points where it scored in 2007.
- It does have a good looking UI, but there is nothing new in it. There is no novelty.
- It is not Ultra Stable.
- The repos does not have updated software.
- The hardware detected is exactly same as Ubuntu.
- Speed wise it pales in comparison to OpenSUSE and Mandriva.
- It is not class leading in any respect. There is no compelling reason to use it.
I would anytime choose Mandriva over it. For someone who do mind pre-installed binary software OpenSUSE and Kubuntu are better choices.
I know that Tex ( the main person behind PCLOS ), was not well recently and could not devote time to PCLOS. However, isn't PCLOS supposed to be a community distribution ? PCLOS 2007 was released in May 2007, since then all major distributions including Fedora, Ubuntu, OpenSUSE and Mandriva have done at least two releases. However, PCLOS still prides itself on the successful 2007 release. The only OS I know can easily sustain a Looooong period between releases is Windows XP. Unfortunately PCLOS is not XP.
Guys PCLOS was the perfect distribution in 2007, but times have changes. 2007 is history, wake up now. Wake up before its too late.
EDIT:: I know very well that a PCLOS MiniMe is release, also we have a PCLOS Gnome edition. However, please do let me know in which respect are they class leading ? Why should I choose PCLOS say over Ubuntu ?
- Minime and PCLOS 2007 share the same repos, Hence, stability wise Minime cannot be more stable.
- With Minime I have to download a hell lot of software to make a working system. I guess I'll have to download a lot less with Ubuntu. Also Ubuntu has the ability to tell which driver/software we are missing in order to get anything working. Like if I type "gcc" in the terminal, I get a message that gcc is not installaed and can be installed using "apt-get install gcc", similarly I I play a video, Totem tells me the required codecs and pops a UI to download and instal it. This is also there is Mandriva. I think that these makes life simpler.
- MiniMe is good, but does it has documentation to work on Vaio. Luckily Ubuntu has, though not official. A google search for "VCC6 Linux" ( the Vaio webcam), immidiately takes me to Ubuntu Forums.
- Ubuntu has more recent software in the repositories. The 8.10 version of Kubuntu will have KDE 4.1.
NOTE :: I am not trying to degrade PCLOS, I just want the devs to take a note of the other distributions and do a catchup.
52 comments:
I have done quite a bit of distro hopping over the years and have always come back to PCLOS. Right now I'm running the 2008 mini version and have never had a problem. Like you though I am anxiously watching the development of Mandriva 2009 with KDE 4.1 RC1 was just released and after a few hours of fiddling with it, it seems really stable. I know I'll be debating between Mandriva when the final release is out and hopefully a new release of PCLOS with KDE4. Although PCLOS is on a rolling release distro (I think thats the term), it would be nice for TexStar to let the community know how the development of the new distro is coming.
Thanks Lazy,
For doing your part in the deconstruction.
If you are such a fan, why point out the current problems? Why not contribute yourself? Fact is there is a 2008 release
it is called MiniMe maybe you want to try it? Its really easy to install MiniMe and bring it up to date and to the full desktop level. Do like I do make your own
2008 release.
PCLinuxOS still rules!!
Dear Anonymous,
I 100% agree that Mandriva 2009 is going to be a killer Distribution. With 2008.1 they have found their rythem and going by the testing I did with RC1 Mandriva has a winner in 2009. I hope they get some tie-ups with hardware vendors and get Mandriva pre-installed on new machines.
Dear Anonymous and PCLOS fan,
I was a fan of PCLOS 2007 and have written quiet a few articles to promote it. However, I look at things objectively and if my fav distro is not doing good - I admit. I could very well make my own PCLOS 2008, but then I cannot possibly call it PCLOS ( right ?). Though I might call is LazyLinux 2008 - wow interesting name.
A slight modification to your last line " PCLOS rulED" - that era is gone. Why don't you substantiate your argument.
Sadly, I admit, you are right about PCLinuxOS. It's a little outdated. No release since 2007...it's a year and four months since then. That's a lot of time, 2008 minime is not worth mentioning, it brings nothing new, just a barebone release that won't be used by newbies. I have made an updated respin for my computer from minime.
I still believe PCLOS is faster than openSUSE or Mandriva but I too am waiting to see how Mandriva integrates KDE 4.1, I might switch distros too.
PCLOS is still rock solid on my computer.
It all boils down to what you want in a distribution. I was an Ubuntu user before, but left it because I either had to run outdated software or suffer from stability issues. All I need is a system that is stable and updates the software regularly. I would like to run the same system for years without any reinstalls. PCLOS fits these requirements the best. And there is a reason KDE 4 is held back. It is not that stable yet. It is getting there, but I support the idea that it should be held back until it is good and ready for production machines. I'd rather see an upgrade to KDE 3.5.10.
I am big time supporter of pclinuxos, have been using it for a few years, best distro I have ever used.
But the truth is they have fallen hard, I have seen this with other distros, and it the main reason I switch distros.
I am still sticking with pclinuxos, but I can understand why some people are leaving and why others don't even bother with pclinuxos.
At this point I would like to see Texstar drop 2008 and release 2009 beta. Cause we are looking at 2010 for the release of 2009 so pclinuxos will fall into the same rut.
Sometimes one needs to leap forward to catch up, pclinuxos can be on top again, but not by releasing 2008.
people can do math and they realize they won't get another update til 2010, so why bother with pclinuxos.
Hi Lazy
You make some valid points (though I've never had the problems you had), but the timing of your article is interesting. I just heard news this week that there is noise on the forum that PCLinuxOS 2008 is due out real soon now. Sounds like they knew they needed a new version before you told them!
I am sorry for not noticing that PClinuxOS is out of date. I have not changed hardware and always done my up dates with synaptic so everything just keeps working. I guess if I buy new hardware like most people don't do every year then I will have a problem. If I am lucky and sellers are smart and PClinuxOS will be installed on the new hardware. The next release is due and I think it will be just fine. If you hurry wine it doesn't get better just cheaper.
I must say youve made it very clear that Pclinux is not Mandriva, Suse or kubuntu. Lets take this one step at a time.
Mandriva is a fine distro Ive used it myself in the past but must say that Ive found many things that worked perfectly on Pclinux were unstable or wouldnt run at all in Mandriva. Weather that was because of bad packaging or a cutting edge unstable release I cant say. Mandriva is very pretty and cutting often edge but I prefer reliability and programs that work.
Suse has simply been a nightmare everytime Ive installed it so it never stayed on my system long enough to really comment on it.
Kubuntu has never been in the running for me as I avoid all Debian based distros like the plague. Not that there is anything wrong with Debian I just personally dont care for some of the ways they do things. And ubuntu is really a poor choice for a comparison as it is generally known as a very unstable distro simply because it tries to be too cutting edge without taking the time to work out the bugs.
As for Kde4.1 even Kde doesnt say it a complete system yet. So again you are chasing the unstable and unready cutting edge. Most people and certainly the people Pclinux is aimed at want a stable system where`everything works with out a lot of drama.
As for your update issues, if youve used Linux for any amount of time you will know that although rare sometimes things go wrong and it can happen on any system.
Personally I run many versions of Linux from Slackware,Sabayon, Vector,Zenwalk,Bluewhite64,Mandriva and a few others including Pclinux. And in my experience although I really enjoy them all Pclinux is still my primary system simply because it and all the software in its repos are so reliable.
One more thing just so youll know. You can auto log in on any Kde distro simply by going to the Kde control center click system administration then login manager then click on the convenience tab and choose the user you want to auto start. Just a helpful tip.
I have also been trying all distros for 10 years now, starting with early releases of redhat and caldera ( interestingly, it was caldera that introduced me to KDE).
Over the years, I figured out that mandriva and opensuse are the best distros out there today, in terms of ease-of-use and h/w support. They are not perfect but they are in a separate class, well and above fedora, ubuntu and the rest.
I did switch to pclinuxos briefly for 6 months. At that time, the community spirit ( rah-rah, we are the greatest) hooked me but I soon found out that pclinuxos was drawing a lot from mandriva without giving them any credit and instead dissing them. I also found that it was more of a clique than a community.
One other thing that impressed upon me was that the loose bunch of people making the distro seemed clueless about what it takes to make a good distro and stay on top. fedora and ubuntu ( and consequently, gnome) have a lot of paid programmers supporting them. Even THEN, they do not support KDE ( usually there is only one KDE person, a 'packager' and he may not even be paid). I suggested they focus on their niche, KDE, when they decided to focus on everything. With limited resources, you need to prioritize and focus your resources. The success to any business or organization is that - it is quite simple.
If these people do not collectively have a brain to understand that, I don't need to use their distro. Simple.
Saw your blog at tuxmachines:
I am newb to Linux. It's your blog you can say what you like. That's a slash and burn type of posting. Bit whingy really doncha think?. Wah: my fave has done fall behind. Woe betide us all.
Then a lecture from on high.
Pontificating here there and to whatever end.
'Tex has been unwell': spoken to him have you?
Short term memory failure neh: recall what a bollox Mandriva was?, recall Suse falling in a big hole.
What, 8 releases of Ubuntu over 2 years. LOL ever try a full upgrade with anything other than PCLOS: eech. ( heh maybe Arch !!)
Ever see a bad review of PCLOS?.
PCLOS jumped to the top of the users listings and gained a strong base because it was streets ahead of other desktops at the time. Leapfrogged all the big names, deservedly IMO, having tested dozens of distros to suss it out, PCLOS just did it all seamlessly.
No q's that Tex is a packager of profound skills. Of course some aspects associated with "smaller" dev and user base, but no problems at all really.
Maybe PCLOS will go out the door:that would be a great shame.
Hopefully NOT.
LOL, maybe the next release will again leapfrog the rest.
I sense some frustration (!) and dissappointment (!) lol
We'll see I guess.
Pretty hard to top the last release eh. :)
Regards.
PS want another distro that just rocks oob: Wolvix.
Hi Greg,
Thanks for the info. I know its easy to setup Auto-login in KDE. However, I was referring to Auto-login during install, which OpenSUSE does perfectly.
Yep, another disgruntled user here. That's why I'm reading this post.
It would help if Tex was a bit more user friendly, an occasional update on progress, or lack of, or problems, would be much appreciated by everybody. Comments such as "it will be ready when it's ready" by those jerks on the forum don't help anybody.
I think you brought several factors to the forefront in your article, then chose to ignore them.
a) PCLinuxOS does not have corporate backing so everything is done gratis by the team.
b) PCLinuxOS was never meant to be 'bleeding edge' but 'STABLE'.
c) PClinuxOS has a very 'small' team of packagers and devs. And I DO MEAN SMALL.
d) Texstar has been ill and unable to help out for the last several months.
However, the team is working on the 2009 release, with new graphics, updated hardware detection, and software. I'm just sorry you can't wait, but are part of the 'gimme now' crowd and are willing to dis the distro while things are in progress.
Like Tex says, use what you need to suit your hardware, and I'll add.. What ever suits your fancy. Just leave those you left behind in one piece.
CSolis aka linuxera
Wow! Nice to know that some people are giving objective comments. I totally accept and agree with a few.
1) PCLOS has got a very small dev team and Tex is not well since some time.
MY Take:: In this corporate world, people take what is the best. Lack of manpower does not hold good.
2) PCLOS is relatively stable than most other distributions.
My Take:: True. However, this does not means that they can lag behind other prominent distributions, when It comes to upgraded packages.
Oh many of us think that in general people prefer Stable software over bleeding edge ?
I don't think so.
Firefox 3 made a world record of downloads in a day- this means that people were crazy and anxious to download and try the LATEST software.
Similarly, there is a craze about Google Chrome despite it being in Beta. Here we are talking about a normal Windows user and not geeks.
Not to forget the huge lines outside Apple stores when iPhone was going to be released.
Ultra stable software is used primarily by corporates, like my company still uses Windows XP with IE 6 and there are no known plans to upgrade.
Lets accept that common people love new and exciting things. iPhone instability or Chrome being Beta is not deterring common people from using it. Serve them an old but stable software and you risk them defecting to greener pastures.
Okay, first, PCLinuxOS has always been, and will always be, about stability first and foremost. This sometimes means that packages aren't going to be bleeding edge.
Second, there is a new release coming out very soon. New packages are in the works and a new kernel will all be on the new release. I believe the new release will completely change your mind.
KDE 4.x.x is considered by the developers of PCLinuxOS as not ready for primetime. The users have mostly agreed on the forum, and even KDE says that it shouldn't be used as a production environment, yet. So why is this a negative? Developement of KDE 4 has been ongoing for the distro, and I don't expect it to be a default environment until KDE gets all its features in place and is completely stable. Heck, even most of the online journalists that have reviewed KDE 4 have said it's just not ready and some have even completely bashed it.
a) PCLinuxOS does not have corporate backing so everything is done gratis by the team.
b) PCLinuxOS was never meant to be 'bleeding edge' but 'STABLE'.
c) PClinuxOS has a very 'small' team of packagers and devs. And I DO MEAN SMALL.
d) Texstar has been ill and unable to help out for the last several months.
A) pclinuxos does not have corporate backing because it has no long term plan and includes software that is illegal to use in the us. It begs users for donations . Donations dry up because there is no long term plan.
B) pclinuxos is not bleeding edge because they dont have enough packagers - simple
c)Pclinuxos has a small team because they do not welcome other devs .
d)Tex was ill for a little while - So your saying that if one guy gets ill then the whole project goes down the toilet .- what a distro!
(a) PCLinuxOS does not have corporate backing because it's a genuine community distro. Simple as that.
(b)+(c) PCLinuxOS has had a number of new packagers both within the dev team, plus other volunteers who contribute src.rpms. New Devs have been welcomed.
(d) Tex's is the boss! The rest of the gang are used to working under his direction. However, the new ISO is very close and keeps to his basic tenet that stability and usability are far more important than release targets.
Expect to see KDE 3.5.10, and a number of major updates to packages. However, once the iso is out, the packages will be moved from "testing" to "stable" and existing users will be able to update without having to re-install, provided they update regularly and do not pick and choose packages to update.
davecs
abhay said...
Guys,
What are you talking about. All are saying that a new release will fix all my problems - How ?
Will all of a sudden all the packages become updated ?
Will Firefox be 3.01 ?
Will KDE be 4.1 ?
Most important, apart from stability ( very important in its own right), what other factors will make PCLOS more appealing than Mandriva/Ubuntu ?
PCLOS is an excellent small distro. It does not pretend to be one of the big players except in the minds of some of its users. I suspect that the distrowatch rankings were artificially skewed either consciously or unconsciously by curiosity seekers or zealots rather than actual users since distrowatch methodology is rather meaningless in the grand scheme of things. It only measures page clicks and not actual installations. I don't want to dis PCLOS. As I said it is a great distro, but perhaps this raised expectations, hence the disappointment. Remember, slow and steady wins the race.
I guess you could say that, just like every other distro and OS out there, there is no single one that gets everything just right ... or right enough that it satisfies everyone.
With that said, I had "distro hopped" for a while before landing on PCLinuxOS 2007. Does the lack of an incremental ISO update require you to download a buttload of updates? Sure! But after spending a short hour or so to do that, you then have the most recent and up-to-date PCLinuxOS system possible. Try that with Windows! As a reseller of used laptops, the last time I installed WinXP on one of my laptops, it took me OVER A DAY of endless updates after endless updates. However, when I install (and fully update) PCLinuxOS, I'm done in under three hours. I don't know about you, but my time is precious to me, and having to spend less than 1/8th the amount of time installing an OS is definitely a boon to me.
Additionally, PCLinuxOS just flat out rocks and runs with nearly every piece of hardware I throw at it. It's stable, easily upgraded, and just works. I've NEVER had any of the problems you have stated. Perhaps you've learned some "bad" habits from all the work-arounds that you have to employ on other distros just to get them to work. There's NO need for any of that with PCLinuxOS.
Complaining about the lack of a firm release schedule, or even the lack of a 2008 version, does not make it happen any faster ... and nor should it! I like TexStar's plan of releasing any new version "when it's ready." That is what makes PCLinuxOS what it is and what makes it stand out from the crowd of other distros. Sure, it would be nice to have regular updates from TexStar regarding progress on either an incremental release or the 2008 release ... but then again, no one is perfect. And, I surmise that doing so would only go as far as to further delay any future release.
If you wanna jump ship for another distro, then good luck to ya. But, as has already been stated previously by others, I suspect that you'll come "home" again to what many of us consider the best, most stable, easiest Linux distro out there to use ... PCLinuxOS.
Nobody criticizes id Software for releasing a game "when it's ready". Users must show similar respect to Linux distros with a similar approach.
I think PCLinuxOS has too few developers to try to separate itself from Mandriva. I believe it should try to stick to Mandriva, stabilize it, make it simple, add Synaptic and other goodies.
In this way, after Mandriva releases 2009, PCLinuxOS would release 2009, with KDE 4.1 and other up to date programs.
In a way, I think it should be what Mint is to Ubuntu.
Hey Davecs!
It's nice to be able to post to one of you lot without having my post deleted or censored or having the thread locked so I can't reply.
That having been said, the one thing that riles me as much as "it will be ready when it's ready" is "make sure you do a TOTAL upgrade". For me that puts you in exactly the same position as Microsoft who also demand a total upgrade. And please remember we ARE adults, and even intelligent ones, and do sometimes think that upgrading Limewire/Skype/Gimp or similar will not wreck the whole system, especially as the TOTAL upgrade download might be 600MB, AND we might still be on dial-up (as most of the people in the world are).
I am amused when someone says a Linux distro is outdated since it has not been upgraded since 2007. Does it do what you need done? Then it is not outdated. These same people would use a several years old Windows XP with no complaint, dutifully upgrading their antivirus, adware and spyware programs. Mind boggling
OK, now we have some PCLOS fanatics who believe that its OK to have a un-updated system. Because it works !!
Well my friend, then why do distributions like Ubuntu, Mandriva, OpenSUSE make a release. Or for that matter why does Firefox makes a release. I think even FF 2.0 "simply works". ???
Why did PCLOS upgrade to FF 3.0 ??
I anticipated this a while ago and switched OS without waiting for the 11th hour.
Any enterprise which is individual centric to the extent PCLOS is/was can result in only one outcome; a foregone conclusion.
A pity as it was undoubtedly a very good product, a cut above most of the rest.
I do hope those that step into the breach will broad base the development management aspect to ensure longterm continuity before it dies a natural death due to obsolesence.
I did switch to pclinuxos briefly for 6 months. At that time, the community spirit ( rah-rah, we are the greatest) hooked me but I soon found out that pclinuxos was drawing a lot from mandriva without giving them any credit and instead dissing them. I also found that it was more of a clique than a community.
The above comment had it spot on and the last part is the root cause for the decline and downward trend of what might have been the all timew perfect distro.
I'm not a pclos user, but I worked closely with a similar "one-man-show" distro a while back. It is stupid to compare these distros to the big names like Ubuntu, Suse, or Fedora. They basically take a general-purpose distro like those and tweak the last nth percent to make it just right for a large number of users. Many of the ideas they pioneer become part of (and get credited to) the upstream distros, so it's not entirely a one-way street.
But the reality is these distros are one-man shows, and if that's a problem for you you ought to stay away. It's pretty easy for any reasonably sensible person to work out what the downsides of that situation are. Dev gets sick, runs short of cash, gets a girlfriend, has a baby, has a death in the family, gets hit by a bus -- then the distro languishes. On the flip side, these guys obviously add some nuance to the desktop that a lot of users appreciate, and it's worth it to them to run it.
I use Ubuntu now, and it has many flaws. It is not nearly as good as the distro I used to be involved in on many levels. But I know there will be a new release in six months with consistent improvements across the board. In five to ten this other distro (and probably PCLOS) will not exist, but Ubuntu, Mandriva, Fedora, et al likely will. Since I am an advanced enough user now to make the little tweaks myself that I miss from my old distro, the long term matters more.
I feel that it's a bit unfair to punch Tex in the nose about KDE 4.x. The KDE4 versions of SUSE and Fedora have been "too challenging" for inexperienced users to handle. Mandriva (which I use) calls their current 2009 development version "RC1", but they still haven't released even an Alpha version of their "migrate your KDE 3.5.x stuff" code. RC1 is still for users of completely new KDE profiles, migration isn't done.
As the distro creators, Tex and friends get to choose their content-- and I will APPROVE if they choose to stay on KDE 3.5.x, even though I will be an MDV tester as soon as MDV cuts an "RC" which includes their 3.5 -> 4.x migration code. (Yes, I have a "kinda-test, backup" box available to do this, and can totally restore partitions there if/when it falls on it's face -- but it will take quite a while to do so.)
I agree that there's issues with staleness of PCLinuxOS, but I think that lack of KDE 4.x isn't one of them.
I used to work with the development team on occasion. I helped create the PCLinuxOS Hardware database and I'm still maintaining EeePCLinuxOS.
You have some very good points, but then you don't. You're points are great if you are using them to compare to a community based distribution, the likes of Fedora or Mandriva. The truth is PCLinuxOS is like apples and oranges compared to the others.. in a lot of ways.
Many would assume that Tex created PCLinuxOS because he had some issue with Mandriva. Granted, Mandriva at the time was one of the best options out there but obviously he made KDE and different packages better (in my view and others). Who knows why he decided to create something different, but he did. He had helpers but for the most part it was his packaging, it was his deal.
It's tuff when your demographic is new users. Who steps up and helps? When people do, will they represent the quality of the product that has your name stamped on it.
My Point. This is Tex's deal. It's his hobby, he could kill PCLinuxOS now if he wanted (or hurt it quite bad). If he wants to come out with a release every 3 years, then he can. If he wants to beg and plead for donations (never have seen that though) then he can. If he wants to make the default color hot pink.. He can. Why? Because it's not a community distribution. Only the people that he decides can work on it. It's his distribution and it will die when he decides to stop. Granted others might carry on but it won't be PCLinuxOS because PCLinuxOS is Tex's baby.
If you have an issue with that, then blog about it, rant about it do what you like, but it's in earnest vain to say PCLinuxOS is dead because it doesn't fit your requirements or even a majority of everyone else's. The truth of the matter is if Tex still uses it. It's still alive. I have a feeling Tex was the first person PCLinuxOS was built for.
Ah, I see that the drive-by shooters, also self-proclaimed experts in all things Linux, are having another go-around, this time at PCLinuxOS rather than KDE4.
From the author of this article I am supposed to learn that the proper place to file bug reports isn't at the project's bug reporting website, but in a WHINE on a blog? Anything for a page-hit. That must mean that the old and time-honored tradition of "release early, release often" doesn't cut it any more. Unpaid volunteers had better put out PERFECT code immediately and submit to all sorts of personal attacks in the mean time, or there will be HELL TO PAY in the blogs?
From these "experts" I am supposed to believe that PCLOS has a small user base, but all they do is set around religiously clicking on Distrowatch to keep PCLOS at the #1 spot... FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR? Right. And the Moon is made of cheese, too.
From these "experts" I am supposed to believe that a talented coder can not single handedly supervise a project the size of PCLOS, so it has to be failing, sooner or later? Right. Tell that to Linus.
These "experts" tell us that PCLOS is a poor distro but Mandrake is a good one because it has better coders and more of them. Strange... I first met TexStar when he packaged RPM files for Mandrake. It was obvious then that he was the BEST of the volunteer package contributors to Mandrake.
From these "experts" I am supposed to believe that they all WERE users of PCLOS at one time but left because (put some excuse here), but their whine shows they know nothing about PCLOS and haven't used it.
From these confused "experts" I learn that PCLOS is "dated", even though PCLOS is a rolling update distro, and the only reason for creating a new release point is to limit the number of files a fresh install has to download to get CURRENT.
From these "experts" I learn that TexStar doesn't give credit to Mandrake/Mandriva as being the source of its first releases, but when I browse the PCLOS forum I read those attributions and nessages of thanks to Mandriva. I also see Adam Williamson, from Mandriva, as a frequent vistor/poster to the PCLOS forum.
Another "expert" claims that the PCLOS forum is cliquey and bashes other distros. Ya. Right. That's why moderators don't allow even the bashing of XP or VISTA. That's a nice clique to be in.
Another "expert", a 10 year user of Linux, won't use PCLOS "if the developers collectively don't have a brain to understand that"... "that" being his idea of what a distro should focus on. However, based on "that" it is obvious that he has never rolled his own distro.
One "expert" assails TexStar/PCLOS for sticking with KDE 3.5, andother "expert" says PCLOS is poor because it doesn't offer KDE4.1. Will the real "expert" please stand up?
Some "experts" think PCLOS is "lagging behind" other distros. Is that why it was #1 for an ENTIRE YEAR on Distrowatch? People love distros that lag behind?
Tony Unrau nailed these "experts" correctly. He called them "poisonous users." Their constant whining when things do not go EXACTLY their way, in their time frame, can kill any project and that's what some pretend users are hoping as they lob more rounds in from the sidelines all the while claiming to be "users" while hiding bravely behind the "anomynous" pseudonym.
Greygeek,
It does not take individual users to click on the Distrowatch site. It can be automated. I don't know that this is the case, but it would be easy to do. My point is that Distrowatch rankings are meaningless and expectations based on them are lunacy. It seems that PCLOS users are the only ones who put any stock in them. I am active on may forums and no other distro pays them any mind.
Linus does not maintain the kernel on his own. He heads a team of people that he trusts. He is in constant contact with them. To compare PCLOS with the Linux foundation and Texstar with Linus is again an over-estimation which seems to be a theme with PCLOS apologists.
Why can't PCLOS users just be happy with the way things are, instead of twisting reality to suit their purpose? PCLOS is a small distro and it probably always will be for many reasons. That does not diminish its standing among its users or its obvious advantages for some.
PCLOS users are unfortunatey getting a reputation for being among the most annoying users in open source. They are not content with the way things have turned out so they heap abuse on other distros, mainly Ubuntu for "dethroning" them. Unfortunately, they can't take it when someone else dishes it out against them (not me, but the writer).
It is time to get real and grow up as a community. Stay positive and you will attract more people than always seeing the glass as half empty.
A response to Roy.
Contrary to your statement the opinion of most Pclinux users as well as the forum mods has always been that the distrowatch rating was nice but really meant nothing.In reality the group that seemed to obsess about it was the ubuntu fanboys constantly whining that Pclinux had stolen their rightful ranking at distrowatch.
I havent really seen to much of this envious behavior since Pclinux moved down in the rankings but I guess that some posters cant get over the most trivial things and feel the need to project their own insecurities on to others.
trouble is pclos went super nova since p.92, it got me off the m$ addiction, the first linux distro that actuaully worked, without hassle, i mean getting to a desktop was a real plus in my book, so here we are at the crossroads of choosing stability or contracting 'OCD' in expecting another super nova experience to blow us away, nah, your comments are valid, but ill stick with stability, although i am just drooling for for the stable release of kde 4 on pclos, tex no rush fella, quality over quantity anyday.
You do know that OpenSuse 11 still ships with kde-4.0.4 and not 4.1, I also find that some of your facts are off. btw im a fedora user, but i have installed pclinuxos with no issues. As for the wireless issue im thinking mandriva ships with dvd and well pclinusos and ubuntu ships on cd, so less space to add all drivers under the sun. So yes maybe you have a point and distro's should stop shipping on cd's and just use dvd iso's from now on.
Wow for a bunch of experts some of the comments are well dumb.
- "PCLOS copied from mandriva" well i hope you know mandriva in its previous incantation was called mandrake linux and they ripped code for code redhat. They never offered an thanks, btw i worked for them so this is fact.
- " one man companies die etc..." Well you do understand that Redhat / Ubuntu were all well 1 man companies prior to becoming huge.
Lets not take credit away from where credit is due, Build your own custom distro and give me a call.
Unfortunately for those, the distribution managers of major distributions like OpenSUSE, Mandriva and Kubuntu think otherwise. Guys if KDE 4.1 was really that bad, these high profile distributions would not include them as default desktop.
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What kind of boot licking mentality is this? "Well, the big distros did it so it must be true."
Have some backbone man.
I've tried all the different 4.1 implemntations. Would I change my mum and dad from 3.59? No. I will wait for 4.2
Were not asking if KDE4.1 is ready for me or my brother in law the software engineer to use. Default means can grandparents use it and its a no.
I still install PCLOS on friends computers because it works and it gives me no hassle. It is customizable, easy to dual boot and simple to use. I see no reason to change my newbie distro (I use Xubuntu and Puppy for older machines)
Come on guys, be realistic. The least Tex could do was to release an updated iso. At least that. I mean, who likes to download an iso and after that download another 700+MB of updates? It really is silly of them not to do that.
I tried KDE 4.1.1 on openSUSE and I can say it works great. Check the reviews guys, KDE 4.1 got really good reviews. People want it, don't be stupid.
For the people who say PCLOS still has a lot of users, check statistics on distrowatch awstats. PCLOS had 2.03% on dec 2007 and on sept 2008 it had 0.93%, less than half. Try to look at the IRC channel and forum and compare it to ubuntu or other distros. PCLOS is dying. You're just too blind to see it.
Obviously, this is personal opinion, like many others found on the web!
I have my PCLOS updated and running 100% and i'm not so excited to use bleeding edge distros or software that are not stable enough. Yes, this is a boring distro because things will only come up when they are ready, tested and stable, that's why i like PCLOS and is the one i trust to keep all my important data. Lazy Thech Guy must know that this was a "boring" distro BUT, it is possible to test brand new software in the test repositories if you like adventures...
I don't like to do a fresh install every 6 months or every single year, i don't see the point of doing that. It is boring ? So what ?
As far as i'm concerned, PCLOS is the right distro for me. It's not perfect, but there are no perfect distros either.
For the ones that are saying that PCLOS is dying ... don't make me laugh ! It's not even close.
I don't wish to belabor this as it is getting pointless. I am active on half a dozen forums, including several Ubuntu and generic Linux sites, and have never experienced Ubuntu "fanboys" reacting to Distrowatch rankings.
If there was any reaction at all they like many others were perplexed because their own independent information showed that Ubuntu was growing faster than any distro which is in fact the reality we see today. They cautioned not to take the rankings seriously.
Incidentally I was not an Ubuntu user at the time. I was a long time MEPIS user which is the Debian equivalent of PCLOS which is small, independent, similar features and run by an individual (who happen to know each other).
I made the switch to Ubuntu for the same reason that many people are moving to Ubuntu, a strong community, and moved away from MEPIS for the same reasons why people are leaving PCLOS, repositories which are not as frequently updated and limited support compared to the mainline distros.
I see the PCLOS community as not as friendly and gung ho, but not in a nice way, as they have nothing good to say about any other distro. I have never seen that kind of running down other distros on any forum. In the blogosphere, if there is a negative report about another distro you will find that it is either written by a PCLOS user or they flock to it and add there derisive comments in droves.
BTW, I still have PCLOS installed on my computer and use it periodically and am a member in good standing of the PCLOS forums. I like the distro and recommend it. My problem is with the conduct of PCLOS users, not with Texstar or the distro, who are not a credit to the Linux community at large.
I answer the charge re: Ubuntu fanboys only because I know this is not the case. I am an Ubuntu user, but I install all new releases of half a dozen distros and use several at once. I have 11 partitions on my drives. I therefore do not consider myself an Ubuntu fanboy. Like many Linux users I use what works for my habits and urge others to do thye same.
Seriously stop the whining about other distros. Stay positive and you will be a credit to your distro of choice and bring in more users to Linux at large. This way we all benefit.
"Radically Simple" and this tag line states it all. Compared to the bleeding edge distros out there such as Mandriva & Suse, it is rock solid. Just tried Mandriva 2009 RC1 and it's a joke. Almost totally uncustomizable, which is probably a KDE 4.1 problem. Texstar and gang offer a system that is tested and performs as a stable OS. It has been my primary operating system since 2005 and has allowed me to become independent of the trojan laden world of Windows. Wouldn't go back for all the gold in California.
It's a pleasure to boot into this OS and not be bombarded by anti-virus programs trying to load and Redmond attempting to communicate with their child.
Hat's off to Tex and the gang. This is how the computer world should be.
PCLOS in 2007 was Mandriva done right. PCLOS in 2008 is just another distro that got left behind.
Btw, PCLOS forums resemble a hardware store. All those padlocks all over the place.
@James
openSUSE and Mandriva are both bleeding edge and stable. Right now I'm on Mandriva 2009 RC1 (which you call a joke) and it is pretty stable, I have not had a single crash (maybe your problem is between the chair and the computer).
If you want stable, rock solid, stick to Debian, Slackware, CentOS.
I've tried openSUSE 11 with KDE 4.1 and it is stable, usable and very nice.
I've tried Firefox 3 on PCLOS and it's a disaster and it's not in testing, it's in extra.
Even the guys from Slackware are excited about KDE 4.1.
"That's right -- KDE version 4.1 is now part of Slackware -current (in the /testing directory), so for everyone who can't wait to try it out, have a look at it! We're all (very happily) using it here now, and it has come a long way since the first 4.x release."
I think some of the comments in the original blog are valid, but, it PCLOS is-what-it-is, and if it works for you, use it, if it doesn't, don't use it.
Rather than bashing the blog writer, I tend to feel that he was trying to say "PCLOS was great, and I am worried that if it doesn't incorporate some of these suggestions, that it greatly risks falling by the wayside."
Miscellaneous:
Wifi - PCLOS 2007 doesn't have as complete wifi support as Mandriva 2008. From experience, specifically atheros wifi in a sony vaio didn't work in PCLOS2007 but works like a charm "out of the box" in Man2008. Also, same with a toshiba unit I have. But, the same Man2008 ran slow like molasses on a cold Canadian winter day on both the vaio (older) and the Toshiba (newer and capable of running linux fast with 3d). This is with correct video drivers et al.
If it works, use it. If it doesn't, don't.
PCLOS isn't perfect for me (could list many issues), but it is the best I have tried so far, and I have tried MANY MANY MANY. Kubuntu is too unstable, and the last I checked a kid still wet behind the ears is the maintainer/organizer of the KDE version.
KDE4 isn't full yet, but those "bleeding edge supporters" who want to try it can browse the PCLOS forums for how to do so. Those who are not "bleeding edge supporters" probably want a desktop with full functionality and ease-of-use - aka KDE3.
One thing I don't like about the western (north america / western europe) mind is that things have to be so polarized - black or white, this or that - things cannot be shades of gray.
No linux distro is perfect. Nor is MacOS or Windows, BSD, Unix, Solaris, whatever.
Use what works, focus on the positive, learn from the positive in others, avoid making the same mistakes as others, and just go on living and using linux or mac or windows or whatever.
Summary, the initial comments have some validity, but some of the responses seem to be over polarized.
Grow up, enjoy life, smell the roses, enjoy linux, enjoy your wife, your child, TV, playstation....
D,TDS
Tex done a great job! But PCLOS is now dated.
Nobody even mentions anything about there not being a 64bit release.
All the pad locks on the forum is really sad to see. I feel they try and control content way to much.
And some are people on that site are living in denial.
I feel Ubuntu,Suse, Mandriva and Fedora are the top progressive releases right now.
A reason to use it?
It's already installed and I don't want to re-install. I have work to do, and don't want to spend all my time maintaining my computer.
Similarly, Mandriva et al who release a new version every six months and cease security updates after 18 cannot meet my needs, however good they are in other respects.
The total dependence of PCLOS on one man and the fact he views it as a hobby rather than a business is a serious weakness, however.
It seems that PCLOS realy misses mr.Textar. I hope he will get better and back to doing what he does best. PCLOS is outdated now, but the update is comming. I`m not a fan, i just use it. And i will wait for the new release.
I have found 2009.1 great, better than my previous favourites (Debian and openSUSE).
I wrote an extremely favourable review in a forum.
Do you know what happens?
I tried to register at their forum.
Apparently they have a vetting system, don't ask me what is based on.
And...they reject me if if you please!!!
What the hell have done I to deserve that?
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